Muck! - Page 2 - Peter Beales Classic Roses Community Forum

admin · #11 25th November 2011, 01:50 PM

The problem with fresh manure is if it touches the roots or plant it will burn so it is best avoided unless you definitely know otherwise

jo_blogs · #12 27th November 2011, 09:24 PM

You have to be a bit careful though - I did that to my rhubarb and it damn near killed it. xx

Flordel · #13 24th January 2012, 07:38 AM

Lucky me, I finally got 40 big bags (about 50kg each) of well rotten cow "muck"! I managed to spread the muck in most of the flower beds and it's about 5 cm think. Needs to be incorporated into the soil in spring. I should receive another 20 bags.
Now I'm thinking, I got natural food for my plants, but will 5cm be a good thing? Will all perennials be able to cope with the extra soil on top?
My garden peonies will not mind this? I've read that if they're planted too deep they will not flower.
Just thoughts going through my mind, I've done it now, no going back.

elemire · #14 24th January 2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flordel

My garden peonies will not mind this? I've read that if they're planted too deep they will not flower.

I read that too, and I can't say that it was my experience with peonies. Maybe if you plant them like 50cm too deep it would make a difference, but a few inches does not really make much of a difference. Sometimes they do not flower for no aparent reason to be honest, in the old garden we had a row of 10 peonies, all planted at same time, in same depth, 9 were flowering perfectly, and 1 never did, go figure...

campanula · #15 24th January 2012, 07:52 PM

a lot of 'scaremongering' has centred on the pernicious use of herbicides which contain amylopyralid or clopyralid. Horse which have been fed hay from fields treated with these broad-leaved weedkillers have been unable to neutralise the effects of thiese herbicides, therefore passing through the digestive process leaving contaminated manure. If anyone is not totally certain of the provenance of the horse silage, whether through treated fields or through supplementary feeding with treated silage, then I suggest doing a test with something fast growing such as beans. The effects of amylopyralid are distorted growth, rendering many, but not all, vegetables grown using contaminated manure, inedible. The same applies to 'green waste' since the herbicides have now been allowed for the domestic market (products such as Verdone, which once had 2,4D as the active ingredients, now contain clopyralid and are not suffieciently degraded by hot composting. Do not use green waste asd a soil conditioner or a mulch. Please google amylopyralid for verification of this horrible threat to 'green' vegetable growers. Last year, 3 separate allotment sites in Cambridge were affected....and the ground remains contaminated for more than a single season - only curcubits are resistant.

Lulu-amongst-the-blooms · #16 25th January 2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campanula

a lot of 'scaremongering' has centred on the pernicious use of herbicides which contain amylopyralid or clopyralid. Horse which have been fed hay from fields treated with these broad-leaved weedkillers have been unable to neutralise the effects of thiese herbicides, therefore passing through the digestive process leaving contaminated manure. If anyone is not totally certain of the provenance of the horse silage, whether through treated fields or through supplementary feeding with treated silage, then I suggest doing a test with something fast growing such as beans. The effects of amylopyralid are distorted growth, rendering many, but not all, vegetables grown using contaminated manure, inedible. The same applies to 'green waste' since the herbicides have now been allowed for the domestic market (products such as Verdone, which once had 2,4D as the active ingredients, now contain clopyralid and are not suffieciently degraded by hot composting. Do not use green waste asd a soil conditioner or a mulch. Please google amylopyralid for verification of this horrible threat to 'green' vegetable growers. Last year, 3 separate allotment sites in Cambridge were affected....and the ground remains contaminated for more than a single season - only curcubits are resistant.

This is a real threat, but, for many people its more traceable. I know absolutely that neither of these have been used in my fields where the horses graze and where our hay is cut. (btw, no one should be feeding horses silage... Thats risky. Haylage yes, silage no!). The first thing i did when this scare came about was to contact all our feed suppliers and get confirmation from them there products were safe too. If they hadn't been we would have had a problem, but they were. Most horse keepers could similarly find out what the risk from their hay and feed sources was.

campanula · #17 25th January 2012, 10:18 AM

ah well, as a non-horse person, I wouldn't have a clue what they ate but a few of my friends who do keep horses have had to buy in hay over winter, especially those in livery (whatever that is) and it has proved quite difficult to really trace exactly what has been used. There was some campaigning for a ban on these herbicides (Doff and Dow Agri products) but, far from doing so, it has now been spread to the domestic market. Sure, there is a notice, in teeny tiny writing, to not put grass clippings in with other green waste....but having seen the quality of this waste, including the thousands of bits of black plastic which rise to the surface, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. A very cross. ex manure user.

Lulu-amongst-the-blooms · #18 25th January 2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campanula

ah well, as a non-horse person, I wouldn't have a clue what they ate but a few of my friends who do keep horses have had to buy in hay over winter, especially those in livery (whatever that is) and it has proved quite difficult to really trace exactly what has been used. There was some campaigning for a ban on these herbicides (Doff and Dow Agri products) but, far from doing so, it has now been spread to the domestic market. Sure, there is a notice, in teeny tiny writing, to not put grass clippings in with other green waste....but having seen the quality of this waste, including the thousands of bits of black plastic which rise to the surface, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. A very cross. ex manure user.

I am so sorry you got stung by it, it must be devastating.

But your friends hay suppliers should know, and the yard owners of the livery yards certainly should be asking those questions. Its very very poor practise otherwise.

If you do want to use muck, and we are always happy for people to have some of our excess, it costs to get rid off, ask people to confirm it for you, and raise the issue of hay, feed and supplemnts. E.g. I also do not mout the manure in our slurry if the animals have been wormed or medicated. This exceeds requirments for organic status, but.....things like that scare mean i want to make extra sure.
edit: the black plastic is a shocker....and probably the result of haylage or silage feeding. Like baling twine we will probably be finding it here for years and years and years.

. Haylage is wrapped and silage covered in it to keep the air out. While people are trying to be eco friendly even organic farms are using more and more plastic to cater for more and more animals forage needs......crazy.