Rose names

[professor]

Greetings and thanks to Maribel for starting me off on this topic! Maribel you so rightly wondered why (18th June) it's so important to know the names of roses etc. when I was trying to have a rose identified. That really got me thinking! Why on earth did I need to know so badly? I just think for me it gives yet another dimension to their "personality" as scent and colour and petal formation do. Their history has the same effect on me. And there is something so romantic about some of the names I almost fall in love with them before I see them! For very quick examples, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Fantin-Latour (makes me think of Impressionist painters) Boule de Neige, Comte de Chambord, Gloire de Dijon, Honorine de Brabant, Ispahan, La Mortola, Leverkusen, Louise Odier, Mme Alfred Carrière, Mme Grégoire Staechelin, Mme Isaac Periere, Rambling Rector, Reine des Violettes, Rosa Mundi, Roseraie de l'Hay, Sombreuil, Variegata di Bologna, Zéphirine Drouhin.........

I won't go on for fear of boring everyone to death but I'd love to know if these or other names have this affect on anyone else too! So over to you...........

[IanStevenson]

Hi Professor,
I couldn't agree more, what about Assemblage des Beautés, Géant des Batailles and who was the Aimable Amie and why?
Ian

[hannes]

Hello professor,

I too completely agree with you and with Ian.

We also have done a little bit of speculating as to some names of historical roses here on the forum (Ian: I still remember your aniseed-hypothesis and your wine arguments in connection with Barbier :))

And your reference to "personality" opens up a broad range of topics and concepts that influence us with regard to 'names' (and for this matter also rose names): individuality, identity -- to name just two, and all the aspects of language in the context of thinking and as our way of referring.

[Maribel]

dear Professor,
You're absolutely right, it's very peculiar. Something strange happened to me after moving to a house with a garden 2 years ago - there were some roses here already that after a while I actually realised I had on my wish list. The funny part is that once I had identified them I got so much more pleasure out of having them than before. That really made ME think!

There are some roses I'm loath to buy because of their crass-sounding names - in an earlier thread I mentioned 'That's Jazz', which I ended up buying despite the name as it looked so lovely, but it took some doing. Then there are roses like Ghislaine de Féligonde, which for me evokes irresistible images of medieval damsels with flowing tresses. But imagine if GdF were called Sunset Boulevard or Shakira or something ... I rest my case.
I think the breeders owe it to their roses to think up something fitting. Crass names colour the whole way I look at (or don't bother to look at) a rose. I've wondered if its something to do with old versus modern. The Czech novelist, Milan Kundera has something in The Unbearable Lightness of Being about the persecution of beauty being a feature of the modern world, that I think about a lot, even though it's years since I read it. The old names you all mention below are somehow more delicate, evocative, gentle ...

Related to this, haven't any of you wondered when reading the PB and other rose catalogues, how on earth they think up individual descriptions for each one? Respect ... even if on occasion they do end up resorting to descriptions like "semolina pudding with jam" (ok promise not to labour this point any more..). Even armed with a good Thesaurus there just aren't that many adjectives out there..
thank you for taking up this thread, I think it's very interesting!
Maribel

[Maribel]

ps re-reading your lists, it occurs to me that the 'nice' names are after all perhaps just ... French! Maybe our Francophone forum members go for the English names?
:)
britta how do you do all those different smileys? I can only produce one facial expression.

[IanStevenson]

Hi Maribel,
It must be extremely difficult to describe 1300 roses or so, a little humour never goes amiss and in this world if we can't have a laugh we'd all be crying. I think all these sort of descriptions like poems should be read out loud, the written word is never enough, like the dots in music really. Useful but only as a guide.There is nothing comparable to seeing for oneself, in the flesh so to speak. 'Belle sans Flatterie'
Ian

[Maribel]

Ian,
Couldn't agree more. Only pulling PB's leg about the semolina. Got to keep 'em on their toes. After all the lion's share of my left-over-salary-after-mortgage goes straight, and willingly, into their coffers. ..
Great idea to read the descriptions aloud - even semolina has an exotic ring to it that way. Erm.
maribel

[taddy]

Because of the way I got most of my roses I don't know most of their names. Although this does not prevent me from loving them, when I find out whom (to me they are persons not objects) they are .... it is like transforming strangers into relatives you can call by name!

[Britta]

Hi all,
I think the semolina-thingy (there it is again) propably goes with the VdB as general vocabulary - I found it in Hessayons Roses Expert too.

@Maribel:
When you are posting, just below the typing field it says '[img] tag: on' - this is a link and you get the 'help' page with a real lot of beautiful smileys :cool:

But you all have a point with the names of roses. The sounds make feelings: Applejack gives something fresh and merry in my imagination, I like that. The name made me look up the rose and what I see is fitting and worth a try ;).
I suppose the french names evoke more tender or romantic reminescences, very fitting to a rose anyway, spanish names have something flamboyant. I am afraid I'll never buy a Tess of the D'Urbervilles though the rose looks very romantic. I read the book and found it absolutely depressing.

And tell you what: It is much easier talking to your roses, when they have names! :D

Britta

[PeterBealesRoses]

This thread is a good read and we couldn't agree more - it is easier to visualise a rose when it has a name