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Hello everybody,
after talking recently with IanStevenson about Rudolf Geschwind and some of his roses in an other thread I want to bring this great Central European rose hybridiser of the 19th century to your attention here. I'm sure many of you will know about him and his work, most will know his best known creation 'Gruss an Teplitz'
Rudolf Geschwind – 50 Years of Breeding Roses
Geschwind, an educated royal forester of the Austro-Hungarian Empire was born 1829 in Hrdle near Teplitz, Bohemia (now Teplice, Czech Republic). He studied in Prague and in Slovakia and moved about a great deal during his liefetime, working as forest official in many parts of the empire (parts that now are: Italy, the Ukraine, Hungary, Czech Rep., Poland, Slovakia). He hybridised roses for 50 years and died 1910 in Karpfen (now: Krupina, Slovakia).
A rose breeder who started out as a hobbyist, Geschwind created more than 140 hybrids from 1860 to 1910, most of them hardy climbing roses. His preoccupations with rose breeding were winter hardiness, health and freedom of flowering. This led him to explore the possibilities of many wild rose species, quite revolutionary and off mainstream at the time. In his quest for winter hardiness Geschwind employed 35 (!) rose species. He extensively used R. setigera, R. californica, R. arkansana, R. canina, R. roxburghii, tough Albas, De La Grifferaie,... Most of his roses are of complex ancestry, derived from second- or even third-generation-crosses.
Geschwind's Work: Theory and Practice of Rose Hybridisation
Geschwind wrote a revolutionary book on rose hybridising, laying down for the first time the practical and theoretical problems that occur in the process of creating new rose varieties (at about the same time Geschwind's countryman Gregor Mendel formulated the foundations of our genetic knowledge). Later Geschwind wrote a book on the tea rose and its hybrids and a book on winter hardiness of roses. As far as I know, none of these books have been translated from German.
In 1865 Geschwind introduced his first rose into commerce, 'Premier Essai' (translation: first try). In 1866 Ketten of Luxembourg introduced thirteen hybrids (that Geschwind had asked them to distribute) as "Hardy Hungarian Climbing Roses". By crossing R. roxburghii with R. begeriana, Geschwind got hardy hybrids with climbing growth. Further crossing led him to a series of very hardy hybrids he called "Nordlandrosen" (translation: roses for the north). The best known from this series is 'Geschwinds Nordlandrose No 1'. Being sure of the importance of these hardy roses he himself also called them "roses of the future".
Geschwind's Heritage Nearly Lost
The importance of Geschwind's work was not fully appreciated during his lifetime and only decades after his death. Some of his problems: being an amateur, being an off mainstream breeder, living at the eastern fringes of central Europe, beeing not connected within the circles of breeders in France and England. His younger German colleagues Metz and Lambert wrote about Geschwind's work in the German rose magazine but this was not an important read outside the German-speaking world. So Geschwind had problems getting his roses known. The German names he gave his roses may have contributed to this too: many of them long, complicated and difficult to pronounce for the non-German speaker. 'Futtacker Schlingrose', 'Trompeter von Säckingen' and 'Prinz Hirzeprinzchen' are just 3 examples. When Ketten, Schmidt or Lambert exported his roses to the USA, Britain or France they often translated the original names. So 'Zigeunerknabe' is commonly better known today as 'Gipsy Boy' and 'Erlkönig' in France as 'Roi des Aues'.
After Geschwind's death in 1910 his extensive rose collection went over to his patron Countess Chotek. About 2,000 of his roses were replanted at her country estate in Dolna Krupa, Hungary (later and now: Slovakia). Marie Henriette Chotek introduced some of Geschwind's roses towards the end of the 1920s ('Geschwinds Schönste' for example in 1930). After the economic depression of the 1930s and later World War II, not one of Geschwind's roses survived in Dolna Krupa. His heritage was nearly lost, 35 years after his death.
The Return of the Geschwind Roses
Rudolf Geschwind's reputation began to recover in the 1990s. An important contribution to this "cause" came from the Austrian Eric Unmuth (engaged in research on Middle European roses and their breeders) who is dedicated to find/identify/preserve Geschwind roses and who has worked for some years on this. Other important promoters: the Californian Bill Grant, Loubert nurseries in France, Weingart nurseries in Germany. Luckily Geschwind roses had survived in European rose collections (Sangerhausen/Germany, Carvriglia/Italy, L'Hay/France), were found again and identified.
Thanks to these efforts, rose lovers around the world again have access to most of the remaining roses. Many of Geschwind's roses can now be seen at the Rosarium Sangerhausen in Germany and at the Fineschi Garden in Cavriglia, Italy and at the extensive collection of the Louberts in France. A monument to his honour and a good collection of his roses can also be seen at the Austrian Rosarium Baden (Baden is a city close to Vienna) and there is a good collection at the Slovak Rosarium in Zvolen.
As Geschwind's work was neglected for such a long time, we now cannot be completely sure though, that all the names given to Geschwind's roses are correct. As with other historical rose breeders it is in some cases open to question whether the right names are attached to the right roses.
A good selection of Geschwind's roses can be bought again, from German and French nurseries, Peter Beales Roses have 'Gruss an Teplitz' and 'Zigeunerknabe' (and maybe others ?), Ashdown Roses have some of Geschwind's creations for example.
At the moment I only know of two sources where you can see an overview of Geschwind roses with descriptions and photos (sorry, in German language only but interesting too for non-German speaking rose lovers with nice photos), Welt der Rosen website: click here and in an article (pages 3ff.) by E. Unmuth on the website of the Finnish Rose society:click here
Last edited by hannes (2007-06-29 11:59:02)
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A note to the posting above on Rudolf Geschwind: I have compiled the information on Geschwind to the best of my knowledge and abilities and have tried to be as accurate as possible.
I apologise if there are mistakes and would ask anyone who finds a mistake to please post and correct here on the forum. This summary is intended for use on this forum only, for the information of members interested in Geschwind and his roses. I have put this together after a short discussion with Ian here, when I found out to my shame that I don't really know much about Geschwind and decided to try to remedy this at least a little bit.
For the compilation of this summary I have used 2 sources extensively: The article "Rudolf Geschwind" by Erich Unmuth, 2006, found on the Heritage Rose Foundation's website and the book "Climbing Roses of the World" (2003) by Charles Quest-Ritson.
Last edited by hannes (2007-06-29 11:47:24)
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Rudolf Geschwind's best known rose Gruss an Teplitz (Gruß an Teplitz, Grüss an Teplitz)
'Gruß an Teplitz' was launched in 1897, a red shrub rose with a strong scent, a rose with a complex ancestry, sometimes classified as a Bourbon (I bought it as a Bourbon for example), often classified as China. To quote Peter Beales who includes it as a Hybrid China: "... difficult to classify but has enough China characteristics to be placed here. Shapely crimson flowers deepening with age, borne in loose clusters but sometimes individually. Good light green foliage but rather inclined to mildew if not in good soil. Sometimes used sucessfully as a small climber ..." (Classic Roses, 1985).
Exactly my experience with 'Gruss an Teplitz' as I made two mistakes after I bought the rose: I gave her not an ideal place, soil is not very good and I didn't substitute it as I usually do when planting a rose. So Gruss an Teplitz gets powdery mildew every year in my garden. This autumn I will move it to a better place, hopefully. Inspite of these conditions, the rose grows vigorously every year and is very floriferous. It flowers continually until very, very late in autumn here. The scent (to my nose) is very sweet and strong. Maybe a good thing to know: The flowers are of medium size, double, on rather thin stems, so the blooms are "nodding". Not everyone likes that. Height usually is given as 6'/1.8m, is about 8'/2.5m now in my garden. 
Gruss an Teplitz, May 2007
More than 100 years after the introduction, 'Gruss an Teplitz' was nominated for the Hall of Fame in the Old Garden Rose category of the World Federation of Rose Societies in 2000.
Last edited by hannes (2007-06-29 12:01:13)
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Good afternoon Hannes,
That is a very comprehensive potted biography of a man most people have heard of but know nothing about, and well worth keeping. Thank you for sparing what must have been a considerable amount of time. Perhaps it might be an idea to do the same thing with other breeders?. The big family creators like Guillot are quite well documented but someone like Schwarz for instance might be interesting, I'll have a look at him and see what I come up with over the weekend.
Ian
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IanStevenson wrote:
... Perhaps it might be an idea to do the same thing with other breeders?. The big family creators like Guillot are quite well documented but someone like Schwarz for instance might be interesting, I'll have a look at him and see what I come up with over the weekend. Ian
In my opinion this would be an excellent idea. I for one, only know about Schwarz (Schwartz?) that he's the breeder of 'Mme. Alfreed Carriere' (difficult to grow in my garden by the way, I have 2 at different places and both are "problem roses" for me).
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Hi Hannes,
Yes, Schwartz, I think I might have picked someone a little difficult. It seems that he started as an amateur and then went to work for Guillot. I have not even discovered his first name or his initials....... Goood start......
Ian
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@ Britta:
Being able to read German and interested in rose breeding, Geschwind's book "Die Hybridation und Sämlingszucht der Rosen" maybe would be of interest to you. The reprint of the 2nd ed. (Leipzig) can be had for EUR 30.00 via amazon.de: click here (Interestingly, a new copy of the softcover version is the same price).
(But reading on this forum how much you are interested and know about growing roses from seeds I suspect you may have the book already? 
)
@ Ian:
I would suppose that Schwartz is a "hard case". Being not francophonic I never could do that. So "bonne chance!" to you.
Last edited by hannes (2007-06-29 13:25:20)
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Hi Hannes,
Ordered on the spot (and looking forward to read it), thank you for the tip! So far with the hybridization I really was more doing and watching, to learn about how the seedlings develop: stages, habit, what they profit from. It IS interesting - may be you will try it too one day 
Britta
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Hi Britta,
... my pleasure. I do hope the tip turns out to be worthwile for you and the book is a good (and useful) read. It certainly has to contain things that are outdated by now but sometimes it is striking to see how innovative and "modern" some people have been thinking decades before us. So let's hope you'll like the book.
I came across this reprint yesterday evening and curious as I am, checked out availability etc. on the web. This is one of the rare cases that a book is sold for EUR 30.00 in Germany and for more than EUR 50.00 in the US. An original copy of the 3rd ed. (Leipzig ? 1888 ??) is also available, sold by the US Limberlost Rose Books for USD 300.
I'm the first to admit that hybridising and growing roses from seeds is very interesting. I follow the "seedling-thread" here with great interest and you certainly have my respect for your experiments. I can't imagine me doing that, I'm glad if I get my cuttings to root.
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Thank you for the excellent biography about this very talented rose breeder. I first became aware of him via a lecture given by Bill Grant about 12 years ago.
About 3 years ago I was attending a meeting of the WFRS Specilaized Conservation Committee just outside Prague. We went to a rose garden that had quite a few Geschwind roses and they are beautiful. We are also collecting them from the Fineschi Garden. I have a good friend who runs a rose nursery in The Netherlands and is also a big fan of Geschwind's roses. He is in the midst of collecting as many as he can for release.
While Geschwind may not yet be well known to the public he is very well known among many rose nursery people.
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Hi Paul,
That is good to know, there must be quite big regions in the US which could happily grow the Geschwind roses and not others that don't like too much frost, snow and extreme cold.
Ian
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Asta Von Parp(b)at. http://www.rosenfoto.de/LiRosenfotoFSY.html
Annchen Von Tharau.
Errinerung an Brod (Souvenir de Brod).
Erlkonig.
Futtacker Schlingrose.
Geschwinds Orden.
Geschwinds Nordlandrose.
Geschwinds Schônste.
Griseldis.
Himmelsauge.
Ovid.
Prinz Hirzeprinzchen.
Rotkâppchen.
Schneelicht.
These are some of Geschwinds Roses photographed in well known roseraies in Germany and France. I have just put the link to the site for the first one. I don't know the photographer, perhaps Hannes does? There are a lot of old Gallicas and Hybrid Perpetuals as well. Worth the visit and a good hours browse.
There is also one of the Praskac roses, Regierungsrat Rottenberger.
Ian
Last edited by IanStevenson (2007-06-30 01:26:23)
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It's a bit higgledypiggledy at the moment but here are more of Geschwind's creations.
Antoine Schurz 1890
Aurelia Liffa 1886
Caroline Bank 1889
Corporal Johann Nagy 1890
Crême 895
Dr Hurta 1867
Errinerung an Schloss Scharfenstein 1892
Ernst G Dörel 1888
Eugéne E Marrlitt 1900
Eurydice 1887
Fatinitza 1886
Forstmeisters Heim 1886
Geisha 1913
Geschwinds Gorgeous 1928
Geschwinds Nordland No2 1928
Gilda 1887
Grafin Estherhazy ?
Hertzblâttchen 1889
Julius Fabianics de Misefa 1902
Leopold Ritter 1900
Marie Dermar 1889
Météor 887
Nymphe Egeria 1893
Theano 1894
Freya 90
Walkûre 1909
Siwa 1910
Tartarus 1888
Virago 1887
Wenzel Geschwind 1902
Wodan 1890
Ian
Last edited by IanStevenson (2007-06-30 19:25:55)
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Hi Hannes,
Perhaps it would be an idea to put the lists of creations at the foot of your original article and then I can delete my haphazardness. Having had very little sleep last night I'm getting tired, but at least it's done for better or for worse....
Ian
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Hardy roses are very much needed in the U.S. and not many of the big breeders think about that when the breed roses. I am beginning to notice Geschwind's name popping up every now and then in rose dicussions.
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Hello & Good Evening Ian,
I have just returned from our garden to Vienna and at the moment am overwhelmed by all your posts here on the French breeders. Haven't had a chance to digest all of that yet. You've put in a lot of work for us over the weekend. Thank you very much for that.
Also thanks for the addition of Geschwind roses. The ones from your first post with the link to www.rosenfoto.de are Geschwinds (now) better known creations (at least in Germany/Austria ) I think. All of them are easily available from German nurseries for example.
I didn't include a list of Geschwind roses with my initial posting to keep it shorter and as there are extensive lists of his (known) creations available via the two links I have included at the bottom of my Geschwind summary: Welt der Rosen website, CLICK HERE (a chronological list from 1860 to 1929, many roses with photo and an additional description). The second, on the Finnish Rose Society's website CLICK HERE, is an alphabetical list, also with many photos and additional information (year of creation, short description). Maybe I should have emphasised these links more in my post, sorry for that.
Thank you for putting up the link to www.rosenfoto.de, this is a very good rose photo resource (with short descriptions, in German). The photographer, Christine Meile, is a photographer and photo journalist, also author, collector of and expert on old roses, well known in the 'German rose world' I think, especially for her rose photos. Many of the photos are from her own large garden (she growns more than 400 there).
And lastly, thank you also for mentioning 'Regierungsrat Rottenberger' by Praskac, I plan to put up a short biography of Franz Prascac with descriptions and pics of his creations that are available still. I already have begun to compile info.
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Good evening Hannes,
OK, I had forgotten the links you had included, anyway I've asked Pete what he thinks about having a special section for History, come Monday we'll know. It seems a pity that with time the Bios will be on forgotten pages....
Ian
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Hi Hannes,
There is a "search" facility available at the top of the forum so you can search for specific information. Click on "Search" and follow the instructions...
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Many thanks, Hannes, for your very interesting overview of Geschwind and his roses. I fully agree that there are many Geschwind roses that deserve far more attention than they've had. I have several of his roses in my personal garden, including the following:
Geschwind's Schönste
Gruss an Teplitz
Leopold Ritter
Walküre
Zigeunerblut
Aurelia Liffa
Souvenir de Brod (Erinnerung an Brod)
Forstmeister Heim
Futtacker Schlingrose
Josephine Ritter
Rottkäppchen
Dr. Hurta
Wodan
Gipsy Boy (Zigeunerknabe)
Himmelsauge
Asta von Parpart
Corporal Johann Nagy
Crème (rosa canina 'crème')
Marie Dermar
Ovid
I've grown some of these for a number of years, but many are fairly recent arrivals. My interest in Geschwind's roses continues to grow and I very much look forward to working with Ashdown Roses in introducing several of these varieties in the United States.
Cliff Orent, Owner
Ashdown West
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I've just posted a photo of my Geschwind's Schönste in its second year here in the Members' Photo Gallery.
Cliff
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Hello Ashdown West,
That looks nice, is it normal to flower as much as that in only its second year?
Ian
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Hello Cliff,
Thank you for your comment and a very warm welcome to the forum! I hope you'll find the time to be on here often.
I second Ian, this is a nice pic you've posted in the gallery. According to Paul Zimmerman you have a one of the largest and most unique collections of roses in North America with many rare roses. Seeing the list of your interesting selection of Geschwind Roses you have in your garden I begin to understand what Paul means. You didn't mention it but I suppose you'll also have the beautiful 'Gilda', as the rose is available via Ashdown West.
Regards
Hannes
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